We've recently made some changes to the video ranking, and your performance may no longer be displayed.
This is because the ranking was not really fair, as it compared male and female users:
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with an interactive machine
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with a non-interactive machine
We found that the best performances were mainly achieved with non-interactive equipment, on which we can't control the resistance level, meaning that users can climb the Alpes d'Huez with very low resistance, whereas owners of interactive machines have to climb it with very high resistance applied by the application.
We're aware that many cyclists play the game by changing the resistance level when the application asks them to, but some don't, allowing them to maintain a very high speed no matter what incline they're on.
For this reason, we have decided to remove all non-interactive equipment from the ranking.
We're working on a solution that will allow you to keep track of your virtual ranking even if you're no longer in the official rankings.
We have also tagged suspicious activities for owners of interactive devices containing data deemed abnormal, and these activities are automatically removed from the ranking.
If one of your activities has disappeared, even though in your opinion it contains no inconsistent data, please contact us by e-mail at support@kinomap.com
Comments
22 comments
Hi Cedric i agree with your article, about some people that play dirty game. but people like me that don't have an interactive equipment, and use the equipment in the correct way (changing the resistance level when the app asks them to) what we have to do when there is a long descent and we must ride like crazy for keep the speed? maybee you could introduce some algorithm in the app that work on climb and descent, that can help people without interactive equipment to get the right perfomance.
thank you.
best.
Hello Carlo,
The algorithm works well, either on climb or descent.
If users apply the resistance we suggest to him, the calculated performance is good. But if a user doesn't change the resistance when we ask him to, then his speed is clearly higher than it should be.
Best regards,
Cedric.
I'm experiencing something similar to what Carlo is describing, however I do own an interactive trainer.
In descents, even when I increase the gradient feel to the max, I can hardly feel any resistance at all, and I have to maintain an unnatural cadance. It's like I'm riding a bike with insufficient gears; Great for climbing, but uncontrollable in descents. Or am I missing some hidden settings?
I think it would be a great addition if users could set the range of this gradient feel according to their preferences.
Thanks!
Hello,
Which bike have you got?
Note that we apply the lowest resistance possible when you are on a descent. Unfortunately, an exercise bike isn't really calibrated the same as a bike trainer on which you install your own bike
Best regards,
Cedric.
Thank you Cedric for your swift reply.
So if the resistance is as low as possible in descents, there's no way to produce more power other than pedaling 'like crazy'? I think it would be more realistic to have at least some resistance so that there is still a way to affect speed in descents, even with a lower cadence, wouldn't you agree?
Best, Erwin
Hello,
It's hard for us to reproduce exactly the same behavior than a real bike on an exercise bike. We try to do our best to reproduce the most accurate experience possible but an exercise bike is not a bike trainer.
If you are looking for the same realism than the road, I would suggest you buy a home trainer on which you install your own bike. Then you would be able to change the gears on your bike like you were on the road.
Best regard,
Cedric.
Cedric, totally in agreement, the interactive app controlled exercise bikes should be kept apart.
Good Job
I also have the VirtuFit iConsole HTR2.1.
Is it because of the simulation model for exercise bikes that I got caught up by 2 players on a track, even though I put a higher wattage on the pedals? This is somewhat frustrating to be honest.
best regards,
Trappert
Hi Cedric,
The issue described by Erwin F is something I clearly recognize. I understand that it's difficult to reproduce the behaviour of a real bike to a virtual environment. Therefore I have a feature request: please increase the difficulty level from 150 to 200%, giving us the opportunity to select a higher virtual gear. That could compensate for the gear loss on slight downhill descents.
:)
Trappert
Hello Trappert,
That's an interesting idea indeed.
Let's see what's possible to do.
Cedric.
Hi, I have a Miweba Sports MC300 with a I-Console+0250 console and just did a sprint and came in the middle of the rankings with my time but it does not show. I did it in challenge mode. What am I doing wrong?
Regards Berkeley
I have a BH Fitness I.Spada II and have the same problem with lack of resistance on descents, changing the difficulty level to 200% or more is a good idea. Any news on if this is likely to be implemented?
Regards
IainJ
Hi! You should adress another unfair question regarding the rankings. It makes no sense at all that those who use a treadmill are competing with those using an ellipitical machine. The ones using treadmills will never be able to compete for the top places. So unfair and discouraging...
Witam, uważam że ci co jeżdżą na sensorach, także powinni być uwzględniani w rankingu, przecież widać po kadencji ,czy zmienił opór.
I have an elliptical interactive trainer (Cardiostrong EX 90 Touch, recognized as CYE Elliptical - Chang Yow), but although my activity is displayed at the top of the activity it is not displayed in the rankings. This is for cycling activities but not for running activities. Can you explain why this is the case?
https://dashboard.kinomap.com/de/activities/3436444
User: kfrank
Until you can work out an algorithm, why can't you rank by time, wattage, cadence, and other variables? This provides a ranking while exposing those who (admittedly or not) are taking "shortcuts." If the time is short but the average wattage is low... we know somebody has taken a shortcut. Okay, it's virtual, not perfect, but rankings are fun and create a competitive spirit.
Hi- does ‘Challenge’ mode have to be selected for a ride to appear on the rankings ? If so that seems a way simpler answer to the question and could perhaps be made clearer elsewhere on the site.
Since a few days ago (January 2023) this apparently applies also to the rowing equipment: No more Concept2 equipment in the leader boards on the web. (They are indeed still there in the app, and even on the web in the small leader board of a training session.) I do not think that Kinomap should be so strict about rowing. I believe that everyone is very good aware of intrinsic problem of comparing the rowing equipment. It was nice to be able to select a single brand (including Concept2) and compare oneself with the others using the same brand (knowing that their used resistance can still be wildly different).
Hi Cedric, first I assumed that my results were not in the scoreboard (per activity) due to the trial period, but now after I started my paid subscribtion, my archivements still are not displayed in the scoreboard per activity. I am correctly connected for biking with my Virtufit Etappe 2.0i.
Do you know any reason or better how to activate my appearance in the Scoreboard at any parcours?
Thanks in advance for your reply!
To start with, I don't care much about this. I was just brought here by clicking some link. Got an email that I'm in the lead position and out of curiosity looked it up out of how many riders (out of 6, haha), however, my name wasn't on the leaderboard. I only ride with a powermeter so no interactive changes of the resistance. Nevertheless, I would think it's the power that matters and the speed in the game should depend on the power output and the incline. I know, that still leaves a room for cheating with rider's weight but that applies to smart trainers as well, I'd say. Calibration could be a problem as well. Again, this topic has little importance to me so just a remark.
This is utter BS - Just got my ranking removed, apparently kayaking on a flat lake must have a steep incline, since you need to change the kayaks drag... I did a max speed of 9 kph, which is slower than my normal expedition kayak - But I am pretty heavy, so if you calculate the speed from a 520 cm kayak, it is properly right. I got removed, but the dude doing boost of 100 kph stays....
I'm going to put what was my closing comment first: Yes, work on a solution but in the meantime remember the old adage "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".
After 35+ years in IT I can assure you that it is the little issues, like removing people from the leaderboard, that will have the most negative impact on customers.
The fact it is blatantly obvious some people are using equipment that doesn't reflect reality may be a big frustrating issue to Kinomap who, understandably, want everything to work perfectly, but it is a relatively minor annoyance to customers who see the same old names at the top of every leaderboard with unachvieable performance statistics (I don't know anyone who can cycle for 40 minutes in excess of 300rpm for the whole ride nor complete a ride that is not mostly downhill but with a few sharp uphill sections at a maximum speed of 60+ mph (96+ kmh +/-) with the exact same speed as their average speed, i.e. they don't slow down at all at anypoint on the ride. This is unrealistic and the only people fooled by it are those that are doing it!
I have only just come across this after using Kinomap since May, as a result of a different problem.
Up to and including my ride a few days ago I was appearing somewhere, mid-table at best, in the leaderboard on every ride...until today...ride not recorded (Kinomap server issue, so would never appear on this particular leaderboard) but all my leaderboard entries have now been removed! My performance is nothing out of the ordinary and falls well within what would be considered an acceptable range of the median for each ride, not an outlier, even though my machine is classed as "Smarts" not "Interactive".
Not a great motivator and definitely not great customer experience.
Being of an ever advancing age (60+ is the new 40 anyone?) and carrying the long term results of a very old knee injury, the leaderboard is a great motivator and helps keep track of improvements in performance. This to me is one of the major reasons for using the app, to aid in improving health and fitness. I suspect it is also a great training aid for those who compete at sports.
So Kinomap, please do not negatively impact a large proportion of you customer base in order to fix an inconsequential problem caused by a very small minority of the aformentioned customer base.
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